CSM/CCP Emergency Summit Results
Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. - Macbeth
You can read the CCP and CSM statements here and see the video chat between The Mittani and Arnar here.
Comments:
CCP Statement
* CCP didn't mention Hilmar's email at all. I expected at least a statement from him, acknowledging that he was aware players were unhappy and was commited to fixing things. I would have been really impressed by an apology. CCP: -10 points
* "CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so."
Is it that hard to write "we apologize"? I expected more humility. CCP: -5 points
* "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
I'm sorry guys, but after we hammered and hammered and hammered on this issue, "no plans and have no plans" is just not good enough. We expected "will never be". CCP: -50 points
* "CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items."
Stop acknowledging, and start apologizing. No statement that $70 monocles and $30 pants are not micro-transactions, they are stupid. CCP: -5 points
* "The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings."
What about "acknowledging" the heat issues created? Also, "wants it to be clear" translates as "multiboxing clients are low on our priority list". CCP: -10 points
* The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with „ship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
"Committed to introduce in some form at a future date". My head just exploded from vagueness overload. So we might get a low-res, bad copy of the original in 2014? That would be accurate according to the above. Expected: "Will be returning in a patch in the next 3 months." CCP: -10 points
* No mention of CCP about the $99 Eve license issue. Yes, this should have been included, as it was a serious issue of discussion in the last week. CCP: -5 points.
* No mention of the Fearless/Greed newsletter issue. CCP: -2 points
CSM Statement
* "Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden."
CSM gets points for going into more detail that CCP, but loses them by only getting "will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality". We want the original ship spinning back. CSM: -5 points
* "Noble Exchange Rollout Debacle: We were shocked and appalled to discover how badly the planning and implementation of the Noble Exchange was executed. Despite the fact that they did not have enough assets of the right types to do a proper rollout, they launched anyway. The CSM believes that if CCP had properly communicated the details of their vanity goods pricing strategy and had sufficient low-tier items available at launch, the controversy would have been greatly reduced. CCP will issue a dev blog in the near future explaining their vanity goods strategy and how it will be implemented in the Noble Exchange."
We know all this; where's the meat? That CCP will give us a dev blog? CSM: -10 points
* "Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."
I'm glad you're convinced, but players want a concrete statement that game-mechanic virtual goods will NEVER be introduced. This was THE KEY ISSUE and you missed getting the commitment from CCP that players wanted. Close enough is not good enough. CSM: -50 points
* "The Fearless "Greed is Good?" Leak: We accept CCP's position that Fearless is a deliberately controversial internal publication and does not represent the policy of CCP Management or of CCP Zulu, the Senior Producer of EVE Online, nor the direction of game design. "
No problems here, I think only the most crazy conspiracy theory guys disbelieve this.
* "The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
Nice language. I notice that Hilmar never shows up anywhere, and that you haven't called on him to apologize or make a statement. CSM: -2 points
* "Arnar (CCP Zulu)'s Angry Friday Blog: We were disappointed by the tone taken in Arnar's Blog, but we understand that he was in a state of extreme agitation and reacting to the leaks coming from within his company, which he saw as a breach of trust. While we may disagree with some of his decisions, we are united in our support of Arnar as the Senior Producer, and were pleased with his followup Apology Blog. We hope that his statement today will begin to restore your trust in his leadership and vision."
No content here.
* "We believe that the situation that has unfolded in the past week has been a perfect storm of CCP communication failures, poor planning and sheer bad luck. Most of these issues, when dealt with in isolation, were reasonably simple to discuss and resolve, but combined they transformed a series of errors into the most significant crisis the EVE community has yet experienced."
I believe part of this, but I also believe that CCP hasn't come clean with enough humility, nor have they made statements strongly enough for me. I was hoping the CSM would get this out of them.
CCP score: -97 points
CSM score: -67 points
Losers: Players.
30 comments
Leave already. Change the name of your blog to "CCP's Loot, My Tears" already, and stop looking for the negative in everything.
^^ this
^^^ this
If you don't like the blog, don't read it. Problem solved!
if you don't like the game, don't play it and stop blogging about it. Problem solved x2 combo!
I do like the game. I don't like what CCP is doing.
^^ This. CCP is a company that makes money, players need to remember this before they make statements about them betraying their trust and breaking their game. They have never done anything to break the game (fair enough incarna dont run on my laptop but meh i cant ship spin on my ancient hardware, time to upgrade and give companys money)
If you hold CCP in some romantic light where they are trying to make your game the way you want it then you are only going to be disappointed. Now stop blogging about CCP and start blogging about ur experiences in game thats what people want to hear about not more bitching and whining. If you cant have experiences in game then y are you even playing.
Agree with everything except the bit about Fearless. I honestly don't see how anyone can read that newsletter and buy CCP's (and now CSM's) line. If you can't be arsed to read the newsletter, this thread covers it nicely: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1543019
Seriously, your expectations are hilariously unrealistic. Although they are sorry, or at least collectively willing to take a more conservative position, as a company they cannot be seen saying "we fucked up" - corporate speak is expected. Plus, they cannot have exact plans laid out this soon, it's simply impractical. They gave us a more vague but also a more speedy response, which is better than a clear plan in a month, although I will be looking for that as well. Overall I am satisfied that the official CCP stance will not return to its former path, and although the wording was vague, it states that they will comply.
To expect CCP to execute a sudden turn from what is was a week ago to being your image of a perfect company is somewhat absurd. Your words are as off-base as CCP's recent words have been.
As a last note, I think that CCP does have some serious internal problems, and that they are in no way over. They internally have split opinions and visions, and an overall lack of stable direction and organization. Read http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm for more, and notice the variety of tones and promises in their words. They are a hurting company, and the statements reflect that, not an unwillingness to make concrete plans. Stop seeing them as the enemy, and see them as a father figure with a alcohol problem that we need to keep an eye on and help back onto the path.
You're demanding a company apologise for saying things you don't like in a private communication you have no right to have read? Its just not going to happen. The most you will ever get out of anyone in a situation like that is something along the lines of "it was a regrettable mistake." Also, read Trebor's blog for why you will never hear "NEVER" from CCP or any other company for that matter.
There is no time machine to take us back to pre-Incarna Eve. CCP have a policy and they will follow it through. A lot of assumptions have been made about what that policy based upon some unfortunate writing by CCP employees and we've been assured that our worst fears aren't going to be met. That's about the best we'll get.
The main thing to take from this is hopefully going to be that CCP get better at communication. Heaven knows they need to and if they don't then it could well spell disaster for Eve.
I agree with most of what SBCU says. Although naive might be a better term than "hysterically unrealistic". EveO is a compelling game despite CCP being disfunctional.
I think you have a very negative view and need to step back a bit.
Ccp is not perfect but neither is it a demon trying to take over the world.
ship spinning is coming back yea and only vanity items in nex stores is
Great.
If you have trouble with them not saying forever, look at what you can promise
Not to do/happen for the rest of your life.
You can't and nor can you expect ccp or anyone else.
By the way your tears make a fine wine to this carebear.
Ship spinning never left, it just 'moved'
Dock up, stare at door for few minutes, open fitting window, spin away to your hearts content
Just to note, I am reading all the comments. I don't censor or ignore contrary points of view. =)
I disagree with the general opinion that these are unrealistic goals. CCP judges the cost of committing to never have any game-mechanic MT items to be too high; I don't. Why they refuse to use words like "apologize" are beyond me. It's calms tempers, appeases the unhappy, and mends relationships. Like a stubborn boyfriend, they seem to be unable to verbalize that they fucked up.
Companies have relationships with customers, and saying you screwed up, and using words that show it, isn't bad business. It's improves business.
A quick google search turns this example up: http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Company-Apologizes-for-Bad-Gas-Incidents--124589594.html
"Most importantly, we apologize to our customers, petroleum suppliers, distributors and marketers, service station owners, transport drivers, motorists and other stakeholders who have been affected by this unfortunate event."
See? Not so hard.
I understand what you mean, but all I want is firm statements.
The multiple clients running CQ is terrible I can have only two of my accounts in station out of four and the lag is still terrible.
Ccp needs to make up their mind, be less vague, and apologize
Glad this is more calm than some discussions elsewhere. =) I am glad that you took my, well, rather frank comments the way you did. Initially, I found myself blazing mad at CCP for their recent actions, etc., etc. But I think that they are ultimately not game-ruining changes, and the real danger comes from the player's response and the ensuing damage to the games general image and perception. And on the inside, CCP is in a bit of an internal crisis. If we truly want a better Eve, we need to help them through it. Tough love is an option, but hardly the only one. At this point I am choosing to see that they are simply internally unprepared to say better, and will accept that for now and push them to do even better going forward.
I also find it helpful to view CCP as a rather split personality. They have a lot of egos and minds pushing in a lot of directions. We need to expel the "bad" parts like a virus while not alienating the minds we cherish at the same time. I fear that recent playerbase actions have caused some collateral damage to the portions of CCP that see the way we do.
In any case, thanks for the food for thought. o7 This has also helped me crystallize my thoughts on the situation.
CCP cannot apologize, as a corp, due to potential liability exposure - never permitted by corp lawyers, who obviously proofed the CCP official response before public release. Same reason why no apology or response from CCP CEO. CCP Zulu is ok to apologize for *personal* statements, but also cannot apologize for CCP.
Remember CCP is company, not person and not club for players. It is legal entity only to make money. Impossible, therefore, for CCP to guarantee that it will not consider and implement (bad) idea if it might make more money for the company. Required by investors, or no more company.
For example, if you like conspiracy theory, notice loophole that CCP promised that only NeX store will not sell P2W items. No promise that they will not create another store to sell P2W items.
Bad to think, perhaps, but easier to understand vague and conservative wording in official response.
Solution? Better if players suggest to CSM and CCP how to change game, so that (a) many more new players join, and (b) existing players ok to spend more real money on playing game. CCP happy and players happy.
Ideas? Example. NeX body clothing are waste of CCP production resources because other players cannot see them. Perhaps more NeX items for head & face only, with wider range of price. Even stubborn players will buy inexpensive face tattoos, I think. Body clothing can wait until WIS.
BTW - I like hanger door. Loads faster than spin-ship hanger and less GPU use. lol.
I think expecting them to promise "We will never do X" is insane. They can't predict where the game will be in 5 years. Hell, they can't even predict who'll own it. For all they know, next year EVE will be owned by Zynga, after a Fanfest induced massacre decimated CCP.
Honestly, expecting them to say "We will never do non-vanity cash items" is expecting them to lie. Be glad CCP are being honest, rather than just telling you what you want to hear.
In between my original post and my return to the game I've come to this position as well. CSM stating that they are satisfied that no P2W is in the works is the best thing we can reasonably expect.
Talking about ship spinning and your emotinal connection to this useless function makes you look like 5 year old.
Grow up and make a decision already: either you leave EVE and forget about it - or you stay and enjoy it while it lasts without balance-affecting RMT.
Do you care about anything enough to fight for it, or do you always bail when things aren't peachy?
* CCP didn’t mention Hilmar’s email at all. I expected at least a statement from him, acknowledging that he was aware players were unhappy and was commited to fixing things. I would have been really impressed by an apology. CCP: -10 points"
You may have expected a statement, but that wasn't the point of the CSM meeting.
"Is it that hard to write “we apologize”? I expected more humility. CCP: -5 points"
You want them to apologize for an internal newsletter that was leaked out to the public? It's their fault that customers read it? This isn't the CIA. There aren't top secret security clearances here. They said enough about it.
"I’m sorry guys, but after we hammered and hammered and hammered on this issue, “no plans and have no plans” is just not good enough. We expected “will never be”. CCP: -50 points"
You're not going to get a "never" statement from CCP. Drop it already.
"Stop acknowledging, and start apologizing. No statement that $70 monocles and $30 pants are not micro-transactions, they are stupid. CCP: -5 points"
Nothing to apologize for. If you don't want $70 monocles and $30 pants, let them know by *not buying them*.
"What about “acknowledging” the heat issues created? Also, “wants it to be clear” translates as “multiboxing clients are low on our priority list”. CCP: -10 points"
They said they're working on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients. That's what people want, and they say they're making it. That's all one can ask for at this point.
"“Committed to introduce in some form at a future date”. My head just exploded from vagueness overload. So we might get a low-res, bad copy of the original in 2014? That would be accurate according to the above. Expected: “Will be returning in a patch in the next 3 months.” CCP: -10 points"
They don't have it made yet. That's all. And they said that until they have it made, you can turn it off! You completely skipped over that line. Right now, if you don't like the station environment, you can *turn it off*.
"* No mention of CCP about the $99 Eve license issue. Yes, this should have been included, as it was a serious issue of discussion in the last week. CCP: -5 points."
They already "mentioned" it when they said in a dev blog it isn't going to be $99, and they're looking at what the lower cost will be. Stop referring to it as the "$99 Eve license issue", because it isn't $99.
"* No mention of the Fearless/Greed newsletter issue. CCP: -2 points"
Of course there was! It was the first point that you attacked! They said they "acknowledge[d] the reaction following the leaked internal communication". That's the Fearless / Greed newsletter. You're not getting more than that over an *internal* newsletter that wasn't supposed to go out to the public.
I'm not going to comment on your statements regarding the CSMs, because they were attacks on the volunteer player base and unecessary.
Also, what was the point of your 'scoring game' if you weren't going to have any positive points to give? It was just grandstanding.
(/sarcasm)Oh, so now we're getting tears from the "great" Khalia Nestune (/sarcasm)
Grow the fuck up, you sound even worse than the loser carebears you post about.
Your tears, they are delicious
The points reminded me of "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"
In the spirit of the show, I award Khalia +27.5 points for allowing all comments to show up, regardless of support or criticism. I might disagree with some of what you posted, but your commenting policy shows character. What the heck, let's make it an even +28 points.
And while we're on the topic of character, I think it's hilarious that Paul raged and quit, after mocking so many others for so much less.
What's it like to participate in groupthink and manufactured controversy?
This may be the most commented post any of us has ever posted. The QQ is massive. I'm really not that concerned with an in-corp mail. It's not my place to criticise it and I'll take CCP's word on not wanting to implement game-breaking changes.
Even if they wanted to, this little event will probably have killed that wish, as they most likely see how much of the community would react. CCP can take their game wherever they want. Demanding things as a consumer is just a bad idea. The more you try to pull something a certain way, the more it will resist.
That said, I'm not at all concerned. First off, there is no proof of pay2win for the Aurum market, nor does there look like there will be. Second, if CCP wants to do it, they will. The only thing the consumer can and should do to protest is bring the issue to CSM and unsubscribe.
Man, if you were to have created this as a troll post, my god Khalia, the tears would have been beautiful.
Eve ain't going anywhere bad fast, and I ain't leaving as long as they really don't dick it up. I ask myself what game changing purchases would be... Ships? Implants? Those can still be blown up and squished by my paid-for-by-isk-cannons, personally I think that squishing something I KNOW came from someone's paycheck would be even more awesome than something that didn't.
Honestly, as long as I can blow it up, and as long as it doesn't compensate completely for people being retards, I welcome the chance to make more carebears sad.
You're in luck, nothing will ever compensate for stupidity.
In all this, I only have to ask -- why are these implants and items non-destructible? When you get podded they apparently reappear in your hangar.
Look at all the trolls, pathetic, he is not making you read.
So stop complaining because you have probably had a lot of tears shed.
To the OP, don't be so negative, corporations and the way that they are run in the world is terrible, but you can't change it.