Blog Banter #20 - Griefing in EVE
With the recent completion of the 3rd installment of the Hulkageddon last month, @CyberinEVE, author of Hands Off, My Loots!, asks: “Griefing is a very big part of EVE. Ninja Salvaging, Suicide Ganking, Trolling, and Scamming are all a very large part of the game. What do you think about all these things? You can talk about one, or all…but just let us know your overall opinion on Griefing, and any recommendations you may have to change it if you think it’s needed.”
Now, normally I don't do the Blog Banter competitions, because, well, I'm lazy. However, seeing as I'm one of the "public faces" of the hi-sec Griefer scene, I've gotten about a dozen requests for my thoughts on this.
Most of the responses I've read to this Blog Banter have actually ignored the question entirely. Instead of posting their opinions on Ninja Salvaging, Suicide Ganking, Trolling, and Scamming, they've posted pages of text about how none of these activities are "Griefing".
So I'm going to do something similar and ignore the actual question. Instead, let's talk about words and what they mean. I'm thinking of a particular word: Piracy.
When an Eve player self-identifies as a Pirate, you know EXACTLY what he's talking about: A player who hangs out in lowsec, looking for "good fights" against other "Pirates". Sure, once in a while a foolish carebear stumbles into their domain, but for the most part Pirates are merely engaging with consensual PvP with other players of the same class. I'm not knocking it because I know it can be fun, but piracy it ain't.
Being a pirate means preying on the unsuspecting, the weak, or the foolhardy. It seems to me that Ninja Salvaging, Suicide Ganking, and Scamming would fall neatly into the definition, while e-honor "good fight!" piracy would not.
So we call ourselves Griefers because our actions cause grief, not just as a byproduct but often as a primary objective. The truth of the matter is that a better term for us would be pirates, but that term was hijacked by low-security PvPers who had no real reason to use it. Folks are trying to deny us the title "Griefer" because our actions are within the intended mechanics of the game. This is missing the point entirely.
I understand the confusion, since in most MMOs, ruining someone else's game is out of the question due both to rules and the game mechanics. In Eve, the universe is such a cold and unforgiving place that such behavior is not only allowed, but is required by a certain segment of the population in order for successes in the game by the law-abiding to have any meaning.
We're Griefers. If you come up with a better title for those who prey on the weak in Eve, I'd love to hear it.
13 comments
"If you come up with a better title for those who prey on the weak in Eve, I’d love to hear it."
Teachers
griefers - nature's way to keep carebear population in check
I could agree with the statement that the word should be pirate.. I Identify my high sec shenanigans as piracy, I steal, extort, embezzle, loot, pillage and burn, This would force ones opinion to sway into the pirate definition, however it also swings dangerously close to a Viking way of life.
We spend time in safe ports, drinking and celebrating and putting together a hearty crew, we wander into the black to a nearby shore and pillage, steal plunder, loot, extort and ravage the countryside till we get bored, then return with our booty to a safe haven to resume our drinking and otherwise celebrating of life.
Its not as personal as piracy, by classical definition, piracy was a much more personal matter, one would mutiny from bad conditions, or otherwise rail against the oppressive ruling class, or more commonly would become a privateer, pirating waters in the name of one's country.
No, the Viking way of life is much more akin to high sec "griefing". A way of life, rather than a set of chosen actions.
"Being a pirate means preying on the unsuspecting, the weak, or the foolhardy. It seems to me that Ninja Salvaging, Suicide Ganking, and Scamming would fall neatly into the definition, while e-honor “good fight!” piracy would not."
Hmm, the thought of agreeing with you disturbs me more than I think you could know, but on this I have to agree.
The terminology in eve is well out of wack, though I'm not sure Pirate is the best term for Ninja Salvaging, Suicide Ganks or Scamming.
More like simply Criminaly Anti-Social, or at least just Criminal.
Actually to be fair I wouldn't include Ninja-Salvaging in 'Criminal' activity.
IMO we're either MMO crusaders, or sociopaths, depending on which side you believe the proper order of EVE to be :)
When I first started taking up gaming, the definition of griefing was a bit more simple. We only viewed it as griefing if the player gained nothing (in game) from the act. In all the acts you describe (Ninja Looting, High-sec Wardecs, corporate thieft), the player has the potential to make a gain within the game mechanics. This alone is not griefing.
Griefing is an act by which your primary focus is to cause emotional distress to the other player. In the Counterstrike world, they called it "Raging" your opponate. Yes, these players are overreacting and you can't control that. But once you find that emotional weakness and start exploiting it, you've crossed the line into griefing. Ergo, somebody like you, Paul, can claim the title of Griefer.
Ninja Salvaging in and of itself is not Piracy. Your more like a scavenger or garbage man in that respect. But suicide ganks and scamming does better-fit the Piracy defintion.
As a self admitting lowsec "pirate" I must say you are wrong about the def. when applied to lowsec. What you described are PvPers, not pirates. Raw PvP IS a part of living in lowsec and yes we do go out and pick fights or knowingly engaged people that are camping gates, but that is not the bread and butter of what we do.
Lowsec piracy involves many of the same things that highsec piracy does, we just don't have to rely on game mechanics/stupidity to have the ability to shoot someone. We pay for this with lowered sec status. When I am out and about and looking for targets I will take a ransom over a kill mail any day. The ransom can lead to recurring revenue in the form of passes, agreeing to not shoot someone's POS, etc.
The whole e-honor is a choice. As a corp/player I chose to honor ransoms, but I do not chose to fight fairly. If I am then I am doing something wrong. Saying GF after the fact can lead to wonderful smack or something to do for 15 minutes. By us honoring our word we are allowed to run protection rackets and if we catch someone again that has been previously caught it makes the second ransom much easier :)
Highsec piracy/griefing/whatever you want to call it is the same basic ideals, but through different means.
When people get blown up in lowsec, they don't get reimbursed ;)
I like the term 'Pirates.'
A LOL by any other name feels just as good.
The real truth is that there are almost as many variants of "pirate" "griefer" "thief" and/or "ninja" as there are people who play this game. People need a name for "the scary bad man who tries to ruin my fun". Classifications are really kind of pointless, in my opinion. But since we have these classifications, there are many misclassified people too; a "ninja" who doesn't gank is really just a scavanger, for example.
Since we're using these silly classifications, however: You, Paul, are definitely a "griefer". All you do is aimed at causing grief to other players in some way, shape, manner, type, kind, or form. And I enjoy that, hence I read your blog. Your own admission of that is irrelevant to me. =)
Paul, you have definatey given me a fair amount to think about in terms of the terminology in EvE. I never really liked the term griefing when game mechanics were in play but your description of piracy seems to fit very well. Much more so than the gate campers and even roamers to some degree. I really enjoy hearing about all the people that take the game far too seriously when they loose to the Honorless Internet Jerks or thoughs doing similar thing. I would bet that even if those people were on the winning side they would be just as pompus and self righteous. So I say keep at it! I'm currently working on joining in our your type of game style and My Loot, Your Tears has given me a massive amount of direction.
When the term "griefer" is used it implies creating grief as the goal. If a pirate creates grief, it is a side effect of piracy.
Your blog header is a bit oversized in Chrome, pal ;)